I've just visited the Kinetic forum (not for the first time today) and noticed the announcement shown below.
I'm not sure where Chris expects to find Feedback as his announcement is locked?
Then I went to view my unread posts (having viewed them about 10 minutes ago) and there are now 318 of them.
I'm not sure what's going on but something doesn't seem right and it looks like a vast history of posts have disappeared?
Has anyone else noticed this change?
[Attachment deleted by Admin to save file space]
Have now and all the unread posts except one I had read before, looks like the"Mark as read" button could overheat ;).
I've never been able to find the Mark as Read option on the Kinetic forum?
I think we have to view each one >:(
Top right hand side under the time stamp looks as if it could do the job, but I have not tried it :-\.
Well I knew what I meant :-[.
I have just been in and confronted with approxz 500 unread items plus all the groupages appear to have been dumped into one public area. What was a relatively tidy and easy to navigate system (albeit could get difficult to search) is now an absolute farce.
I am very surprised that such drastic action has been taken without at least asking a few people that have been using the forum for years to comment on what they like or dislike about the site. After all I thought the idea behind the forum, and its reason for being, was to help people with Kinetics products find information relevant to their product and lots of the "public" area stuff was easy to find and quite tidy under the groupings that used to exist (Especially logos)
All I can see happening is that the number of people using the forum may tail off - or maybe that is what is wanted by Chris - perhaps the forum has outgrown its usefulness in their eyes.
One rather disgruntled forum user.
Mike
Where as we had a section just for logos & requests, looks like they have all been lumped in with all the other posts now. :(
Ian,
Despite all the hard work by people like yourself, looks like they don count Logos as being relevant to the new Kinetic forum :-\
Quote from: Roadrunner on July 12, 2012, 04:42:05 PM
One rather disgruntled forum user.
And another.
I've been a member of the Kinetic forum since September 2005 and have made over 7,000 posts. Surely some advance notice or consultation would have been a better tactic rather than an "out-of-the-blue" fait accompli?
That's what I'd have done. My members deserve it.
I think I would only need to visit the forum to check the requests & post logos and silhouettes, can't see the need to visit for anything else, seeing as the aviation section has vanished. :(
As some of you will be aware, I've (privately) been of the opinion for some time that Kinetic had lost interest in its own forum. I think it's a commercial mistake and I've mentioned this to Chris many times.
If it were my business I'd have put more resource into ensuring I had an effective and productive channel to communicate with existing and future customers, as does nearly every successful company, large or small. However, it's not my business but I am a customer.
David Goodman has posted (http://www.kinetic.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15445&p=124204&sid=601a91e15ff910f84450674a4b5f4900#p124198):
"The purpose of the Forum was to allow Kinetic to communicate with its customers and not to become a hub for advertising, spam and other non appropriate activities. The current number of Topics will be slashed again as alternative options for the provision of resources are made.
The plethora of alternative forums (eg www.RadarSpotting.com , www.RadarSpotters.eu, www.FlightRadar24.com ) for generic posts, offers and resources will ensure that customers with an SBS device are supported."
I wonder if he's visited these forums on a regular basis?
I hope DaveReid won't mind me quoting verbatim from his post on the Kinetic forum?
Dave joined the Kinetic forum a few months before I did and I have the utmost respect for his knowledge and am in his debt for his invaluable guidance and help over the years.
I think his post this afternoon sums up what I can only describe as Kinetic's Gerald Ratner moment:
"While it's hard to argue with Chris and David when they say that moderating the forum is taking up too much time and resources, I think the action taken is pretty draconian and, frankly, poorly thought out.
There are lots of resources directly relevant to SBS users which are now going to be very difficult to find amongst everything else that's been lumped together under "Public Resources".
And even useful threads appear to have vanished - I posted earlier today in a discussion about spurious altitudes being displayed by BaseStation, and I'm blowed if I can find any trace of that thread now.
Sorry, guys, but from here it looks like you've chucked out the baby with the bathwater."
I can confirm that a useful post started a few days ago by Keith D and to which I also replied has totally disappeared. What a shambles.
http://www.kinetic.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15445&p=124205&sid=601a91e15ff910f84450674a4b5f4900#p124203
here is the text of my response to Kinetic Daves text that I think was aimed at me
Kinetic Dave,
I and many more have your devices as they are in my opinion the best in the market. One of the things that attracted me to it was the fact that it can be customised to ones own tastes - a step you took as a company was to allow third party add ons. Having done that you now appear to be saying that you dont want to support these 3rd party add ons, and the forum requests that they generate. Only a day or so ago Chris was applauding the PP changes that allow your SBS3 device to be used as a scanner, are you now saying that we Must use the PP forum for anything related to that even though it was changed to support your SBS3. Iank Paul Mustang and many more have spent hours supporting the additon of logo columns to your database to make your devices that much more interesting to use. Now you have slapped them and us in the face by totally wiping out the neat and tidy series of sub groups that supported this important add-on to your original idea. If you dont want the bother of people wanting a central point for all things SBS devices why dont you come clean and just shut down the forum. At least then we will know where we stand.
Mike
May be we should get the logo makers to have a section on here then Kinetic can go stuff themselves
Sorry if my last post was a little over the top but I just want people to know how bl**dy annoyed I am
Mike
Quote from: Roadrunner on July 12, 2012, 06:23:19 PM
May be we should get the logo makers to have a section on here then Kinetic can go stuff themselves
I have considered this before and having a logo gallery. The only reason I didn't was because Kinetic was providing support and I didn't want to be accused of trying to undermine its forum.
Silly me. I should have realised it was more than capable of doing it itself. ;)
Sad day in my book. What else is in the pipeline?
Quote from: Anmer on July 12, 2012, 06:35:21 PM
Sad day in my book. What else is in the pipeline?
No forum at all. :-[
[Attachment deleted by Admin to save file space]
For info the message on the Forum now says "The Kinetic forums have been taken off-line whilst we reorganise the content and prune expired posts. Please revisit later or try one of the support forums available through your search engine."
Same as the screenshot in my previous message. ;)
As a moderator of an automotive forum I can see the reason for dumping ,over the last few months we have had advertising spam and links to other sites which advertise in in the background and noting to do with the automotive trade .
I think its a very cheap way that some companies have resorted too .
even had one that posted sexey underware in its signiture .
this makes the moderators job more involved as every post has to be vetted for content.
The difference is that I pm the member and give them a chance to ammend their ways ,if they don't then they are no longer a member
Quote from: squiral on July 14, 2012, 10:06:48 AM
As a moderator of an automotive forum I can see the reason for dumping ,over the last few months we have had advertising spam and links to other sites which advertise in in the background and noting to do with the automotive trade .
But has anyone noticed that happening on the Kinetic forum? I'm on there all day and I haven't.
But the main issue isn't the "housekeeping" but the absence of any warning and the deletion of posts including ones started the day before.
Surely there are better ways to address the claimed "issues"? And what do you mean by "dumping"?
Dont forget, in the early years of Kinetic forum, will was stopped from spending hours on the forum, does this now mean Chris will not be on the forum much ?
Quote from: mhm on July 14, 2012, 10:33:16 AM
Dont forget, in the early years of Kinetic forum, will was stopped from spending hours on the forum, does this now mean Chris will not be on the forum much ?
Yes, Will was told to stop responding to posts as he had no time left for development. And in those early days there were lots of Basestation software changes.
But now the product is stable and I didn't notice Chris spending a lot of time on the forum. And now there are other forums providing support, such as this one.
Interesting, not a word here from Kinetic Chris who has managed to post on another forum in response to a reported SBS-1 fault. ???
Obviously that forum wasn't Kinetic's own.
Probably that is because we had a go at them for what they are doing >:(
Quote from: Roadrunner on July 15, 2012, 07:46:03 AM
Probably that is because we had a go at them for what they are doing >:(
And Kinetic can't delete these posts. ;)
Are there any plans to have a logos section on this forum ? .. I already miss being able to update the logo's from Ian K, Paul M and Mustang 51 (Plus anyone else i have forgotten)
Ian H
Quote from: IanH654 on July 16, 2012, 11:15:21 PM
Are there any plans to have a logos section on this forum ?
This was considered some time ago but since it was well established on the Kinetic forum there was no benefit in competing.
Should the Kinetic forum stay offline and/or the logo creators want it, we can add a logo gallery feature.
Just my 2p worth:
Suggestions that they won't bring back the forum would only work if it was known that Kinetic people frequented others to answer questions only Kinetic would have answers to. But then they are letting others pay the expense of running a forum so some financial contribution might be fair.
I didn't post on the Kinetic forum much mainly because the answers to previous questions (now gone) meant I found my answer. So even if the archive of the forum was made available as read only, it might save reinventing the wheel.
Can't even look at the forum on http://archive.org/web/web.php since it was not recently captured. :(
Ian
Quote from: IanH on July 17, 2012, 10:52:45 AM
So even if the archive of the forum was made available as read only, it might save reinventing the wheel.
If Kinetic's concern is that its forum "had become a hub for advertising, spam and other non appropriate activities", maybe a read only archive would be better than nothing at all?
What I don't understand is the total silence.
This seems rather short sighted of Kinetic to me, I hope they reconsider. Independent support forums are great, especially this one. But as has already been mentioned I purchased from Kinetic and I would expect them to keep a support forum going for the benefit of both Kinetic themselves and their customers. They have a great product, but this attitude doesn't sit well with an educated and intelligent user base who have purchased an expensive item.
I make no apology for complaining, but it is sad that I feel the need to.
Cheers,
Keef.
At last some progress. :)
I haven't been able to speak to Chris but have been assured that the Kinetic Forum will be back soon.
Apparently there have been some technical issues that needed to be sorted and this has taken longer than expected. Kinetic is taking the opportunity to add some new features but I don't have any more detail.
So, hopefully, we shall find out more soon. But when is another matter.
Watch this space.
Hi Boss .If This is the reason why its down .Would'nt a simple few words from Chris saying no cause for concern have been in Order?
Quote from: Anmer on July 20, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
At last some progress. :)
I haven't been able to speak to Chris but have been assured that the Kinetic Forum will be back soon.
Apparently there have been some technical issues that needed to be sorted and this has taken longer than expected. Kinetic is taking the opportunity to add some new features but I don't have any more detail.
So, hopefully, we shall find out more soon. But when is another matter.
Watch this space.
Was it that much of an issue that the Kinetic team could not post in forums as the nature of the problem or the fact that there was a Tech problem..? No, he was able to visit forums but refused point blank to put the wispers to bed..
A total crock in my humble opinion.. >:(
Quote from: shakysen on July 20, 2012, 12:13:56 PM
Would'nt a simple few words from Chris saying no cause for concern have been in Order?
Yes I agree. It's so unlike him but there must be a good reason.
We shall have to wait and see.
The usual thing for them is to announce something at the most inappropriate time, so maybe we will see something at 6pm today just in time for the weekend, that way they won't be able to answer any queries until Monday ;D
Quote from: Ian K on July 20, 2012, 12:28:24 PM
The usual thing for them is to announce something at the most inappropriate time, so maybe we will see something at 6pm today just in time for the weekend, that way they won't be able to answer any queries until Monday ;D
Like it ;)
I agree total silence is not good
I always like to think "positive" so let's look forward to the Kinetic Forum coming back online, sometime soon.
One of our members has donated a Kingston DataTraveler 32GB USB Drive as a prize for the person who is nearest in predicting the date and time that the Kinetic Forum comes back online.
The date/time of the first post after it comes online will be the marker. So make sure you post a message on the Kinetic forum if you think your prediction is going to win.
As usual, this is a "fun" competition and no purchase is necessary. And The Boss's decision is final. If there's a tie, The Boss's lady will draw a name out of the proverbial hat.
Rather than clutter this message thread, please post your predictions here (http://radarspotting.com/forum/index.php/topic,1148.msg5294.html#msg5294).
As a relative newcomer here, it is sad to see that Kinetic has got fed up with it's customers.
Although I have been using SBS for many years, I shamed to admit that I don't contribute more to the forums.
It does seem a strange view that Kinetic are taking. You would have thought that it's customers should be it's priority. After all without our money, Kinetic wouldn't be here.
I have been extremely grateful for all the help I've had from all you folks and I must admit that on the few occasions that I have contacted Chris at Kinetic, he was very efficient in swiftly offering solutions.
Not a great customer relations exercise!
Kevin
I have voiced my concerns over what was done to the forum a week ago and totally surprised by the complete shut-down for a week so far. However, I have never really thought that Kinetic was abandoning us or the forum, not with the SBS-3 in its infancy and continued development .
I have also noticed that there are now additional headers in the official Kinetic Support site for logos flags etc., albeit not activated yet so I think things will return to some semblance of normality soon. I am also please with the two announcements about having 6 channels and then the scanning ability added to the SBS3 radios. Overall I think we have a lot to look forward to.
Mike
It's now two weeks since the Kinetic forum was taken offline and there's still not been any announcement about its future.
News items are appearing on the Kinetic website but nothing about the forum.
Some are suggesting that Kinetic is cost cutting and has abandoned the forum, leaving its customers to look for support elsewhere, such as Radarspotting.com.
Whilst I and others will do our best to support SBS-1 and SBS-3 customers, we don't have access to the Kinetic development team and can't fix bugs. And some forums just don't have the experience and can cause more problems than they solve.
I hear murmuring from the Elstree direction that the forum is definitely coming back. I sincerely hope so, especially for those who don't visit this forum and are struggling to get help elsewhere.
I woke up this morning and realised I am starting to have withdrawal symptoms from missing the Kinetic forum. Especially the usual, almost daily treat, of more and more great logos etc. I think it is the longest time I have gone without being able to use the forum since I got my first SBS1 way back in October 2006. I enjoy the hobby but the access to the forum has been a big part of it both from making new friends and learning new skills from the knowledgable fellow members.
Is it really almost six years since I started using Kinetic devices (which also coincided with me retiring) and how much longer will Kinetic keep us all waiting. They have a good product and a very loyal fan base but there is only so far you can push people before they give up on you. Making open ended promises does not work so come on Kinetics, what about it. Haven't you had time enough to sort out the forum, or are you waiting to see who breaks first.........
Over two weeks now and not a word from Kinetic. That's what I can't understand.
And the distribution of logos via the Kinetic website isn't ideal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think visitors like to view the logos and not just download a file. The forum gave the logo distribution a sense of creativity and topicality. It also allowed others to join in.
The Kinetic forum is now back on-line, with the following announcement:
"The Forum has been restored back to the 1st July 2012 database in order to allow those who wish to copy off or contribute new information from it to have the opportunity to do so. Kinetic will begin an active consultation on pruning at the beginning of September 2012 in order to rationalise content and management"
The forum went "off-line" on 12th July 2012, so it appears to have lost all posts between 1st and 12th July 2012.
I have just tried to Login and it is painfully slow and I'm still waiting!
Agree that it is slow.
The worrying thing about the first part of that header:
"allow those who wish to copy off or contribute new information from it to have the
opportunity to do so"
suggests "get it now before its gone".
And who is going to bother to post new information with the threat of "pruning" meaning it potentially gets deleted in a few weeks time?
Ian
I agree Ian.
Let's hope nothing gets "pruned" (isn't that a cure for constipation?) before the consultation takes place.
I'm pleased to say it looks like the Kinetic Forum is working well now after the response time problems earlier today.
I'm looking forward to the consultation process in September.