In the UK and many other countries, consumers have legal protection in respect of faulty goods and obtaining refunds and not being fobbed off with offers of free repairs.
There's an interesting post over on the AirNav forum which may be worth a read and following the outcome.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=6941.msg79534#msg79534
Looks like the old blown SAW filter symptoms to me. I thought they'd fixed them ages ago.
Why didn't he send it to W&S as advised by AirNav. He even said himself that he would not be able to speak to Moonraker until the weekend.
::)
I suppose he was giving the company he ordered it from a chance to sort it out?
I'm surprised at Moonraker, I've ordered a few things from them over the years and found them very good :o
The UK consumer would normally be entitled to a full refund from the company that sold the goods, in this case Moonraker.
Having said that, I've heard Moonraker is a good retailer.
Quote from: Anmer on May 08, 2012, 05:17:00 PM
The UK consumer would normally be entitled to a full refund from the company that sold the goods, in this case Moonraker.
Actually that is not what the Sale of Goods Act says. A retailer's first option is to have the goods repaired. Replacement or refund only arises if a repair would be unnecessarily lengthy and involve undue inconvenience and extra cost to the buyer.
Just think motor cars to put it in perspective.
And yes, I've dealt with Moonraker for over 30 years, never had a problem with them and always found them happy to give help and advice over the phone.
Quote from: viking9 on May 08, 2012, 11:50:18 PM
Actually that is not what the Sale of Goods Act says. A retailer's first option is to have the goods repaired. Replacement or refund only arises if a repair would be unnecessarily lengthy and involve undue inconvenience and extra cost to the buyer.
Not sure that's right Tom.
"If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it."
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/understanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/
The time taken to reject the goods will have a bearing and in the case in point it appears to have been a matter of a few weeks.
More information here:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/
Have to agree with Mike on this one. The retailer actually has little say in what the consumer decides s/he wants to do in terms of a repair / replacement / refund - you decide not the retailer.
Don't get confused between retail sales and Wholesale or Business to Business sales, the Sale of Good act operates in different ways depending on to whom you are selling.
Tim
Why would I get confused between retail and wholesale sales? It's not rocket science.
I quoted motor cars. Try getting a replacement for a faulty new PC or your money back instead of a repair from one of the large retail chains.
Quote from: viking9 on May 09, 2012, 08:52:11 AM
I quoted motor cars. Try getting a replacement for a faulty new PC or your money back instead of a repair from one of the large retail chains.
I have and did. 8)
Quote from: viking9Try getting a replacement for a faulty new PC or your money back instead of a repair from one of the large retail chains.
Quote from: AnmerI have and did. 8)
Me too - twice, from the store which is "never knowingly undersold".
The retailer's obligations
If there is an obvious fault with the item at any time within the first 6 months and it has not been caused by wear and tear or misuse, your first port of call must be the shop you bought it from. They have the responsibility to put the matter right, and should not evade this responsibility by referring you to the manufacturer in the context of a guarantee or warranty.
In the first instance and if considered appropriate, the seller must offer to at least repair the goods. They must do this within reasonable time, at no additional cost to you and without causing any significant inconvenience. If any inconvenience is caused you should be given a replacement item on a 'like for like' basis (and not simply the cheapest and most basic model). Many consumer complaints relate to the length of time the item is away being repaired – and although you must allow reasonable time for repair, the law does not say what 'reasonable time' is. It very much depends on the item itself and the nature of the problem. For most things, shops would usually allow you to exchange the item or give you your money back straight away. However, if the damage is minor and can be repaired easily, then the shop can insist on this as a first option, although this will not stop you from taking it back if the repair is unsatisfactory or there is something else wrong with it.
If a repair is impossible or unfeasible, you must then be offered a replacement. Due to the emphasis on proportionality in this legislation, you must give the seller reasonable time to repair or replace before demanding your money back and you should be aware that any refund given may well take account of any use you have had of the goods since you took possession of them. If you do not want the seller to repair or replace, or they have told you they are unable to, you can then request they reduce the purchase price to an appropriate amount, although this does not affect your ability to take return the item if something else goes wrong.
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/returning-damaged-or-faulty-goods/
Sorry Tom, I beg to differ.
Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the consumer can reject goods that are "not fit for purpose" within a reasonable timeframe and demand a full refund. There is no obligation to accept a replacement or repair.
Time is of essence in rejecting the goods, typically within a few weeks. If longer, then the retailer may choose to offer a replacement or repair.
Quote from: Anmer on May 09, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
Sorry Tom, I beg to differ.
Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the consumer can reject goods that are "not fit for purpose" within a reasonable timeframe and demand a full refund. There is no obligation to accept a replacement or repair.
Time is of essence in rejecting the goods, typically within a few weeks. If longer, then the retailer may choose to offer a replacement or repair.
Mike
I do have first hand experience of the Act at work as I worked in retail, in the computer business, for many years and I can tell you that most PCs that are faulty on delivery are repaired and most customers accept it. PCs were only exchanged if there was cosmetic damage or units couldn't be repaired within a reasonable timeframe. I never saw money being refunded on a major item.
We once had the boss of a multinational estate agents in Slough (clue there as to who they are) who refused to have his faulty new Compaq laptop (£4k plus) repaired as he was flying to Japan the following day and demanded a replacement. Compaq refused to replace it, customer took our company to court when he returned from Japan a week later - and lost. I could quote you lots of other cases.
The thing about the Sale of Goods Act is that it's the same as all other pieces of legislation - it's open to interpretation.
BTW, the guy with the RadarBox had not even proved that there was a fault with the unit so Moonraker are quite within their rights to ask for it to be returned for examination. It could for instance have been damaged in transit, in which case the claim would be against the carrier. It could even have been damaged by a static discharge or lightning strike. Who's liability then?
Quote from: G4UMW on May 09, 2012, 09:56:33 AM
Me too - twice, from the store which is "never knowingly undersold".
Two faulty PCs from the same store! How unlucky.
Perhaps you'd advise us whenever you're flying so we don't get on the same flight. ;)
I started this thread by stating that UK consumers have a right to a refund if goods are faulty and should not be fobbed off with offers of replacements or repairs. That remains the case.
None of us know the full facts about the RadarBox supplied by Moonraker. But, and maybe this is where we shall have to agree to differ, if the consumer rejected the RadarBox as faulty within a week or two of accepting it, he should be entitled to a full refund including return postage costs. This assumes the receiver is subsequently proved to be faulty
The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 provides additional protection for goods bought online or by mail order even if the goods aren't faulty.
I too have worked in retail and currently run an eBay shop for my son's IT supply business.
By the way, I took a brand new, faulty lawn mower back to B&Q two weeks ago and got an instant and full refund.
Quote from: viking9Two faulty PCs from the same store! How unlucky.
To be fair (and accurate), only one PC was faulty - it packed up a couple of days after I purchased it. Took it back, they couldn't get it working and gave me a new unit with no hassle.
The other was an advertising problem. The PC supplied was of an inferior spec to that advertised. Took it back, armed with the correct spec from the manufacturer's website. They were very concerned, then relieved when it was found that the mistake lay with head office and not them. In recompense they gave me £100 off the price of the higher spec machine I eventually purchased.
Good, old-fashioned customer service!
So you are not that unlucky. Only one faulty PC. ;D
But I was born on Friday the 13th! :o
The customer has posted an update on the AirNav forum.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=6941.msg80117#msg80117