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Author Topic: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?  (Read 15932 times)

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Offline Anmer

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Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« on: April 11, 2013, 08:50:27 am »
An interesting post on the AirNav forum today.

"Autopopulate does't work anymore if you have turned off data sharing. That was changed last week."

If it means what it says, is AirNav blackmailing us by blocking access to the server for aircraft updates if data sharing is set to "Off"?

If true, AirNav and it's main distributor, Waters & Stanton, may need to explain why product features have been withdrawn from those who choose not to share?

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=7646.msg91543#msg91543


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Offline Hamish McTorsk

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 09:03:40 am »
If that is the case then they will have to start thinking about getting some foot transplants as they have no feet left to shoot.

I am positive that they will loose a fair few sharers who will turn off in solidarity with the ANRB owners who do not share.
Auto populate is one of the selling points of the ANRB and what they have done is particularly nasty, even for them.

Shame on you Brandao, you only dig your hole of disrepute deeper..............
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Offline Roadrunner

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 09:42:12 am »
I was thinking of giving my RadarBox away but I guess if things get any worse I will have to pay someone to have it. LOL ;D
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Offline moonie31

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 10:04:23 am »
I have generally kept out of AirNav discussions as they have no relevance to me whatsoever.

All I can say on this "Thank the lord i did not buy a radarbox!!!!"

Anyone that does from now on need their head feeling!

Andy
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Offline Roadrunner

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 10:06:41 am »
I feel for those people that live in countries that would prosecute if they were found to be providing data. They will have a nearly useless bit of junk now.
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Offline Bethsalem

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 02:23:29 pm »
And here's just idiot me thinking their downloads servers been on the blink for the best part of a week  :-[

To stoop to such a low, underhand, unethical trick they must be REALLY struggling to keep their heads above water.

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Offline Anmer

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 06:59:18 pm »
Tarbat, a long standing and well respected RadarBox user and one-time beta tester, has posted an interesting comment on the Radarspotters forum.  And he should be applauded for doing so.

One reason I pulled out of beta testing - difficult to sign-off as tested a "feature" you don't think should be implemented!!  I was told last year that this new "feature" was to be introduced with the new software, and therefore users could stay on the old version of software and still get free server lookups.

"With V4.04 and versions after that only users sharing data will get access to thumbnails and aircraft data.  Please make sure you are sharing to the network / sharing activated."

But it looks like AirNav couldn't wait to introduce it unannounced.  Disgraceful.


With aircraft updates blocked by Airnav, the RadarBox software become almost useless.

In my view this isn't just disgraceful, it's a shameful breach of contract and I shall be referring AirNav's global distributor, Waters & Stanton of Hockley, Essex to the relevant UK authority.

Maybe some US based customers should consider doing something similar about AirNav Systems LLC, registered in San Diego, CA, USA?

http://www.radarspotters.eu/forum/index.php/topic,7579.msg51587.html#msg51587
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Offline Brian

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 08:17:48 pm »
Has someone let Advertising Standards Authority know about this yet ?
http://www.asa.org.uk/

Offline Brian

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 09:15:01 pm »
It got blamed on the wrong file version uploaded to the server!

The next RadarBox software version(4.04?) will use more user internet ISP bandwidth. Since the user would have to share full time to the Radarbox network to use the aircraft autopopulate feature and photos features  :(

Updated Thread Post by AirNav Development on April 12, 2012 at 07:46:48 pm ยป
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have received some emails today regarding the problem we are having with the autopopulate and photos features. This post intends to clarifiy the situation.

V4.04 development is progressing well: this development involves both server and client side programming.
By mistake we uploaded a wrong version of our server software which blocks the autopopulate and photos features for non sharing user.

We will revert back to the old version which opens these features to anyone.

Anyway it is our intention to, when V4.04 is released, to only allow flight and aircraft data download from server for users that share data with AirNav Systems. These features involve a lot of of server side development and maintenance, bandwidth and server usage and we simply cannot continue to offer them to users that, for some reason, don't want to allow their received data to be shared with us.

From our stats more than 90% of the users already share data with us in real-time so this change would only affect less than 10% of the community. Users will always have the option to disable data sharing but in that case data download from the server will be blocked.

V4.04 development is coming along and we hope to release more information in 1-2 weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=7661
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:21:27 pm by Brian »

Offline birdie

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 07:37:34 am »
Tarbat, a long standing and well respected RadarBox user and one-time beta tester, has posted an interesting comment on the Radarspotters forum.  And he should be applauded for doing so.

One reason I pulled out of beta testing - difficult to sign-off as tested a "feature" you don't think should be implemented!!  I was told last year that this new "feature" was to be introduced with the new software, and therefore users could stay on the old version of software and still get free server lookups.

"With V4.04 and versions after that only users sharing data will get access to thumbnails and aircraft data.  Please make sure you are sharing to the network / sharing activated."

But it looks like AirNav couldn't wait to introduce it unannounced.  Disgraceful.


With aircraft updates blocked by Airnav, the RadarBox software become almost useless.

In my view this isn't just disgraceful, it's a shameful breach of contract and I shall be referring AirNav's global distributor, Waters & Stanton of Hockley, Essex to the relevant UK authority.

Maybe some US based customers should consider doing something similar about AirNav Systems LLC, registered in San Diego, CA, USA?

http://www.radarspotters.eu/forum/index.php/topic,7579.msg51587.html#msg51587

Anmer,

Thanks for the head-up. Sorry, if i sound like a stuck record.

Now, it cleared the air - why I can't disable the "Share flight Data" - it is SET ( by default ) = ON ( whether you want or not - but DECEIVED you into thinking you can disable it ).

I caught AirNav " Last Nail in their Coffin " - these THIEF even DARE to display the Serial Number of my Radarbox in Radarbox24.com

See the attached Screenshot.

My Radarbox is now Permanently OFF to prevent theft of data.

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Offline IanH

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 10:27:30 am »
My first comment on Airnav - I usually just watch with interest.

So after all the waiting for V4.04, it comes with a sting in the tail. And due to the incompetence of AirNav's handling of servers, the genie is out of the bottle already.

A business model that charges people for data provided free (perhaps unwittingly) by other users doesn't seem the most ethical one.

But to blackmail people by depriving them of data because they won't participate in the scam has to be really dredging the depths. Last throes of a dying business that sees this as the only way to make any money?

Ian
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Offline Anmer

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 01:39:26 pm »
This is AirNav's statement which appears to have been posted releuctantly following Tarbat's post.

I've spent the last 4 years reading AirNav's promises and excuses and I have no trust or belief in any of them.  AirNav is a blatant liar and bully.  It continually lies and abuses us, either through it's forum, Facebook page or by removing product features.  Only today I was reading the RadarBox listing and leaflet on the Waters & Stanton website, which makes no mention of the requirement to share data.  The bit about "Always Updating" is nothing but a total lie.  The last software "update" was in December 2009, unless we include blocking updates for those who don't share.

But let's debunk this latest statement.

Quote

We have received some emails today regarding the problem we are having with the autopopulate and photos features. This post intends to clarifiy the situation.

V4.04 development is progressing well: this development involves both server and client side programming.

We've heard that so many times before it's no longer creditable.  AirNav's scarce development resource is totally focussed on RadarBox24.com.  If not, why have we been waiting over 40 months for a dozen bug fixes?

Quote
By mistake we uploaded a wrong version of our server software which blocks the autopopulate and photos features for non sharing user.

Pull the other one.  This was a deliberate ploy to force RadarBox users to share data and compete with Flightradar24 and Planefinder, both of which have more traffic than RadarBox24.  This is nothing less than a disgraceful attempt at blackmailing its customers.

Quote
We will revert back to the old version which opens these features to anyone.

When?

Quote
Anyway it is our intention to, when V4.04 is released, to only allow flight and aircraft data download from server for users that share data with AirNav Systems. These features involve a lot of of server side development and maintenance, bandwidth and server usage and we simply cannot continue to offer them to users that, for some reason, don't want to allow their received data to be shared with us.

Sorry, but that's utter b*llocks.

We paid good money for the RadarBox and it wasn't a condition of sale that key features wouldn't be available to those were weren't sharing.  If it were, why is there an option to turn off sharing?

Quote
From our stats more than 90% of the users already share data with us in real-time so this change would only affect less than 10% of the community. Users will always have the option to disable data sharing but in that case data download from the server will be blocked.

More b*llocks.  If 90% are sharing, why introduce the change?  Maybe those sharing stats are untrue, it wouldn't be the first time that AirNav has lied?  Let's not ignore the PR propaganda that claims that RadarBox is fed by over 10,000 RadarBoxes (AirNav has only sold a fraction of that number) but at best only 500 share.  There aren't enough RadarBoxes out there to underpin RadarBox24.com and that's why AirNav is recruiting sharers using other receivers, even though it ridiculed these for providing inconsistent and unreliable data.  It also claims that these new sharers are being recruited at a rate of 15 per day and has over 100 already.

So that's 10,000 RadarBoxes and at least 100 other sharers.  How come Flightradar24, with only 10% of that total, is so obviously outperforming RadarBox24?  The screen doesn't lie even if AirNav does.

Quote
V4.04 development is coming along and we hope to release more information in 1-2 weeks.

I've been reading AirNav's "more information" for over 3 years. I can't say I'm sat here holding my breath in anticiaption.

So what can we do to combat this blackmail?

I can suggest two things:

1. Turn off your sharing now and show AirNav that it doesn't hold all the cards.

2. Contact Waters & Stanton and demand a full refund for your RadarBox.  Clearly it's no longer fit for purpose.  Then buy a dongle, share with Flightradar24 or Planefinder and use the balance to go on holiday.

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=7661.msg91626#msg91626
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Offline Brian

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2013, 05:42:00 pm »
More b*llocks.  If 90% are sharing, why introduce the change?  Maybe those sharing stats are untrue, it wouldn't be the first time that AirNav has lied?  Let's not ignore the PR propaganda that claims that RadarBox is fed by over 10,000 RadarBoxes (AirNav has only sold a fraction of that number) but at best only 500 share.  There aren't enough RadarBoxes out there to underpin RadarBox24.com and that's why AirNav is recruiting sharers using other receivers, even though it ridiculed these for providing inconsistent and unreliable data.  It also claims that these new sharers are being recruited at a rate of 15 per day and has over 100 already.

So that's 10,000 RadarBoxes and at least 100 other sharers.  How come Flightradar24, with only 10% of that total, is so obviously outperforming RadarBox24?  The screen doesn't lie even if AirNav does.

FR24 Mike posted a thing about it yesterday.

Quote from: Mike;30846


This is a banner that RB24 is using "10 000 radarbox units streaming real-time flight data from over 100 countries"

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=7662.msg91627#msg91627

"in just one week and after we deployed our brand new data sharing application from non-RadarBox ADS-B receivers, we've added 100 more data sharing users to our RadarBox Network (which feeds both RadarBox Windows Client software and and our RadarBox24.com). we are adding new sharers at a rate of more than 15 per day."

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=306829282779214&set=a.250514485077361.57504.226612787467531&type=1

Have an aviation website? Get more visitors by adding a RadarBox24 widget for free.
Over 300 sites have done so in the last 2 months.


When FR24 have 1.300 feeders, RB24 have 10.000 feeders.
When FR24 adds 2-3 new feeds per day, RB24 adds 15 new feeds per day.
When FR24 have 20 widget users after 6 years, RB24 have 300 widget users after 3 months.

For some strange reason RB24 must always be 7-15 times bigger/better than FR24.
Is there anyone who actually believes in what Mr.Brandeo is writing?
http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/5150-Which-is-better-Flightradar24-or-Radarbox24?p=30846&viewfull=1#post30846

Offline birdie

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2013, 08:07:31 pm »
I was thinking of giving my RadarBox away but I guess if things get any worse I will have to pay someone to have it. LOL ;D

Please pay me and You can give your RadarBox to me.

I can then stack it up on top of my Radarbox to add weight as a "paper-weight" - currently it is not working because it is too light.
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Offline eggplant

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Re: Is AirNav Blackmailing Us?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 04:36:21 pm »
Well I suppose I am "impressed" that AN finally have released a new s/w version. The old bugs really annoyed me. However, I feel rather insulted that in order to have the bugs fixed (which should have been done with no strings attached) I am obliged to share my data. Frankly, as I live near Heathrow, I daresay my data is of little/no value to AN (I'm sure others will share data more useful than mine) - but I'm afraid I do not appreciate AN taking the p*ss out of me. I give up, I think I'll simply throw my radarbox in the bin and start afresh with an SBS system. As I am banned from the AN forum I have used a proxy server to set up a fake account, and I see that the new version seems to be riddled with bugs. Probably be another 4 years before they release another bug-ridden version - if anyone is still aware of whom AN is by then !
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