Spotting military aircraft

[TTECH]

The strange thing is that I can see that I am receiving Mode AC signals in RTL1090 but nothing in PlanePlotter.

[IanH]

I've set up a dongle again and I get the same results as TTECH. I see Mode A/C output in RTL1090 but nothing in PlanePlotter.

Those screenshots are the same as mine.

[TTECH]

Ok then I'm not the only one...
I really can't find a solution for it.

[TTECH]

I am going to try Beamfinder Plus S using Mode S signals.
It's remarkable that I don't have patterns in the signals like in the tutorials(see attachment) so maybe I can't use it also.

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[TTECH]

Clearer image:

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[Bethsalem]

That isn't much different to mine.

I would suggest just following the PlanePlotter tutorials, ignore that you're using a dongle, and then log your radar pings, analyse them and hopefully you will be able to create a decent radar.txt file.

My radar.txt file isn't perfect. The Mode S radar sites are accurate, but I don't think the same can be said for my other ones  , but I do have a working Beamfinder function which is better than nothing in the absence of MLAT.

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[TTECH]

I have tried creating a radar.txt file using the Mode S radar interval logging but it inaccurate.
I can choose between:
'Log radar identifier pings' and 'Log mode s radar pulse interval pings'.
Which one should is good?

I found this on the internet, maybe that is reliable for the locations:
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zmuAYgd3KRPA.kuRfIJPGvyfs

Is it possible that an aircraft only sends Mode AC signals? If yes, I will not receive it if I'm using Mode S?

Regards;
Tibo

[IanH]

Take it one step at a time. You are trying to achieve in a few days what some of us are still trying to achieve after months of trial and error!

So you can't see some aircraft on the PP screen but are they being detected at all? Only those aircraft with known positions  (ADS-B or MLAT) show on screen but also take a look at the aircraft list (either press "a" or press the aircraft button on the toolbar - two different versions of the same output),

That will show what else is around (those with no latitude/longitude information). Anything of interest?

[TTECH]

Hello IanH,

I have configured the Beamfinder method but it isn't accurate.
When I open the aircraft list(a), then I can see for example an F16 that isn't on the chart because it hasn't position information.
I would like to calculate it's position using Beamfinder but it doesn't work.
When I click on the aircraft name that I would like to designate in the aircraft list, there doesn't happen anything.
I can only see beams when I click on an aircraft that is on the chart or aircraft list when I am receiving it, not someone elso(other color).
I have put my radar.txt file in attachment.

Maybe the problem is the inaccurate radar.txt file, although it should show some beams when I click on an unpositioned aircraft in the aircraft list.

I have so many questions but I will start with this.

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[Triple7]

Hi Tibo,

Have a read of the PP help file for 'Beamfinder' it will answer your question here and also the two others you have posted elsewhere, where you are unlikely to get a response - this is the place you need to be 

Beamfinder only works on traffic you are receiving yourself, as it needs to have the SI or II identifiers, these are not - as far as I am aware - transmitted by the sharing server.

You do have F12 pressed don't you?

Tim

[TTECH]

Hello Tim,

Thank you for the reply.

Actually that's very bad news...
I don't know what I can do now.
Mlat is not possible because there are not many users using it in Belgium.
So I can't find the position of an aircraft that I am not receiving in my area?
Maybe the best solution is buying a better antenna and see what that gives me.
I live near a military air base and there mostly fly A109's, NH90's and SF260's.
They flew less then 1000ft above my house today but I didn't receive anything. I only saw them in the 'aircraft list' window but I think the results were from other sharers.
So I thought I could locate them using Beamfinder.

F12 is checked.

I can't find a clear answer to my questions in the Help file.
I will paste them here from the other forum:

2) What's the main difference between using Beamfinder(Mode-S)  and Beamfinder Plus(Mode-AC)?
I have heard that Mode-AC is better for lower altitudes, is that true?

3) Is it possible that an aircraft is only sending Mode-AC signals, and no Mode-S signals?
If yes, then I would not receive military aircraft using Mode-AC signals I suppose so there it is possible that I don't see all aircrafts.

4) Is it possible to see everything that my ground station(desktop pc) receives, also see it on my laptop when I am away from home?
I have tried Virtual Radar Server but it only shows the aircraft that my receiver receives, not the ones from other sharers.
It would be nice to follow everything when I am spotting at an air base somewhere.

Already thanks for the help everyone.

Tibo

[IanH]

When I open the aircraft list(a), then I can see for example an F16 that isn't on the chart because it hasn't position information.

OK - at least you are receiving something from the F-16. In the list that you see after clicking on the aircraft icon in the toolbar, are you the only person seeing it? For instance in my example, several other sharers are seeing G-FBJF and MLAT gives a location.

If you are not the only sharer, MLAT might work.

Have you tried MLAT on some other civil aircraft to see if it is working?

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[TTECH]

I am not sure if I'm the only one receiving it. I will take a look at it tomorrow.
I have tried Mlat on the F16 a few times but the pop up windows said that there was not enough data for it.
Mlat works with other civil aircraft.

[IanH]

OK - just checking that things are working as they should be.

Edit: And I'm surprised that there are not more PP users looking for military aircraft in Belgium given how popular Scramble website is (based in Netherlands).

[Breitling]

I think you need to read a bit more about transponder basics, you'll have better understanding about all this. A couple of easy readings:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_(aviation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_transponder_interrogation_modes

And now....

2) What's the main difference between using Beamfinder(Mode-S)  and Beamfinder Plus(Mode-AC)?
I have heard that Mode-AC is better for lower altitudes, is that true?

Not at all, they are simply different systems. Mode A-C radars are continuously interrogating aircrafts, which answer with a simple sqwak code (Mode A) or their barometric altitude (Mode C). Mode S radars make selective calls asking for a multitude of different messages to be answered by aircrafts. Maybe that idea comes from the fact that general aviation usually have Mode A-C transponders and fly lower levels.

3) Is it possible that an aircraft is only sending Mode-AC signals, and no Mode-S signals?
If yes, then I would not receive military aircraft using Mode-AC signals I suppose so there it is possible that I don't see all aircrafts.

Yes, there are still many aircrafts with Mode A-C transponders. Single European Sky regulations say that new aircrafts built as of 2015 must have Mode S transponders, existing aircrafts should upgrade to Mode S transponder as of 2017, and air navigation service providers should guarantee Mode S capabilities as of 2020. So there's still a long way to go.

4) Is it possible to see everything that my ground station(desktop pc) receives, also see it on my laptop when I am away from home?
I have tried Virtual Radar Server but it only shows the aircraft that my receiver receives, not the ones from other sharers.
It would be nice to follow everything when I am spotting at an air base somewhere.

Yes, you can publish your own PP main screen. Options -- Graphic output.