PlanePlotter on two computers

[TTECH]

Hello everyone,

I just have installed PlanePlotter on my desktop pc and laptop(for going mobile).
The problem is that I only have master user status on my desktop pc, and not on my laptop.
Because of this, I can't perform MLAT requests on my laptop.

Is there a solution for this?
I'm already master user.

Best regards,
Tibo

[Anmer]

Have you set port forwarding for the laptop?

[Triple7]

Hi Tibo,

In case you are not aware, you can only have one PC using the Mlat function on a LAN. You have to configure the router to send the packets on port 9742 to one specific IP address - which you have done. You cannot send the same data to two separate IP addresses on the same LAN.

Have a read of section 4 in the Multilat.pdf file in the main PP folder.

If you send a nice note to Bev at COAA, he may be able to activate the Master User status for your laptop installation as well. I think it's correct that if you pay for the MU facility on your main desktop machine you can have a 'seldom used' second machine activated without having to pay twice. That way you will be able to receive the auto Mlat plots when mobile, but you probably won't be able to manually Mlat aircraft due to restrictions some mobile providers have on the way they allocate IP addresses.

Tim

[TTECH]

No port forwarding set on laptop, but I'll do.
Suddenly, I have the master status also on my laptop Nice!

Now the question is indeed, will it be possible to use it with a 3G network and will Mlat work on a 3G network?

I got this from PP website:

One record for one aircraft is 105 bytes.  That corresponds to 4.5Mb per month per aircraft.  The server downloads records for all the aircraft that show on your current chart display.  If you average 10 aircraft on the screen, the monthly download would be around 35Mb.  If you average 100 aircraft, the monthly download would be around 450Mb.  Because of the way the sharing server throttles the data if you are displaying a very large area with lots of aircraft, the total is unlikely to exceed the 450Mb figure.  On the uplink it will always be less than that although I think many ISPs only meter the
downloaded data and not the uploaded data since their capacity problem is always in the downward direction.

Of course, if you check the Upload only option, then the download bandwidth would be negligible.

Can anyone confirm this?
In the best case I can use a 3G dongle on my laptop or use tethering with my phone.

Regards,
Tibo

[Triple7]

Hi Tibo,

I use '3' three.co.uk for my mobile usage. I get a 1 GB allowance for 30 days and last week I was at Heathrow for about 6 hours and used just over 100 MB of that allowance. I think the figures you found of 450 Mb a month are a bit light, I also find that with hypersharing enabled on my mobile set-up the usage goes up.

Will Mlat work? Well that does depend on how your mobile provider allocates IP addresses. If you get a unique WAN IP address then you should be OK to do your own manual Mlats, but if you get a NAT generated IP address i.e shared with others over a single WAN, then your 3G dongle won't get the replies to your Mlat requests as the real "router" at your ISP has not been configured (you can't do that anyway as you can't access it) to handle incoming packets from your Mlat requests so it won't work.

There was some discussion about whether the mobile operators have all now changed to a shared system, as the main reason for me picking 3 was that they gave me a single WAN address that enabled me to use Mlat whilst mobile. Now that the PP system (in my area at least) is so robust and auto Mlat's appear, there isn't (for me anyway) the need to carry out manual Mlat's so I actually don't know if that would work with my 3 set-up. Maybe I need to check that tomorrow and report back.

Tim

[Triple7]

Maybe I need to check that tomorrow and report back.

I have carried out the test and am pleased to report it works. I use a 3 MiFi dongle / router (Huawei E585) that allows up to 5 simultaneous 3G connections so it acts as a router, you can port forward using the same principles as a home based router.

I just needed to tick raw data for Mlats in I/O options and test the 'raw data in' and it worked as expected.

However, before Satcom points this out, running with raw data ticked on a mobile instance is not preferred as unless you have your "home location" i.e. the location of the antenna exactly correct, you can mess up the Mlat system. In your case, with only a few raw data providers in Belgium, I am sure you can sort that bit out.

Settings are in the attachment in case anyone is interested 

Connect the router to the PC (laptop) via the USB cable, log in to the router, in the Manage Settings section pick Security and then pick Virtual Server. Specify the ports, IP address and protocol, click apply / OK and that's it.

Tim

[Attachment deleted by Admin to save file space]

[TTECH]

Thank you for the reply and nice that it works!

I have a few questions about it.
In case I buy an 3G dongle and connect it to my laptop when I go to an air base:

- Why do I have to set my home location on my laptop when going out of home? I don't think so because I am not uploading data when I am going mobile, but only downloading.
Only my desktop pc at home is sending data to PlanePlotter.

- Most ideally, I would buy an SBS-3 or something similar and use that at my home location, and use the R820T dongle with my laptop when going mobile.
But it seems that the R820T dongle doesn't provide good raw data?
Strange because all the network tests are positive.

- The Huawei looks a nice solution, but using the same 3G as my phone would be handier.

[Triple7]

Hi Tibo,

I'll try and reply to each of your questions ......

- Why do I have to set my home location on my laptop when going out of home? I don't think so because I am not uploading data when I am going mobile, but only downloading.
Only my desktop pc at home is sending data to PlanePlotter.

Under those circumstances, you don't need to input your home location, but my understanding was in your location Ground Stations are few and far between so I assumed you would want to be adding your local raw data to the system, hence my suggestion you need to enter your location correctly.

- Most ideally, I would buy an SBS-3 or something similar and use that at my home location, and use the R820T dongle with my laptop when going mobile.
But it seems that the R820T dongle doesn't provide good raw data? Strange because all the network tests are positive.

Standby on that one - a new version of PP is in test 6.4.1.7 and I think (hope) it might provide a better solution for R820T users.

- The Huawei looks a nice solution, but using the same 3G as my phone would be handier.

Yes, but using your phone will not allow you to set up port forwarding, so you will not be able to perform your own manual Mlats, you will be totally reliant on whatever the PP system generates automatically, which you have said previously is not too much in your area.

Tim

[TTECH]

Under those circumstances, you don't need to input your home location, but my understanding was in your location Ground Stations are few and far between so I assumed you would want to be adding your local raw data to the system, hence my suggestion you need to enter your location correctly.

That would be ideal if I can upload date with the R820T dongle when mobile.

Standby on that one - a new version of PP is in test 6.4.1.7 and I think (hope) it might provide a better solution for R820T users.

Nice! Where can I see updates about the release?

Yes, but using your phone will not allow you to set up port forwarding, so you will not be able to perform your own manual Mlats, you will be totally reliant on whatever the PP system generates automatically, which you have said previously is not too much in your area.

Ok, then the Huawei  will be a better solution

Some off topic, but is it normal that I randomly get a 'robot' telling me "Ground Station Must Be Running NTP' when running PP?
I don't use NTP but I use automatic time & date with Windows 7.
I tried to set up NTP but I don't understand how to start it.

Regards and thanks for the help,
Tibo

[Triple7]

As for PP updates, you have to wait for information on the PP Yahoo group but you can sometimes get an idea there is a new version by looking here:

http://www.coaa.co.uk/ppuserversions.php

At this time there are a couple of new versions in test.

As for NTP, it's recommended if you are going to be a GS to have NTP running, if you don't you get that automated message.

See here for info on how to set it up:

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/setup.html

It should start automatically whenever you start Windows.

Tim

[TTECH]

Thanks.

Any idea when it will be released?

I just installed NTP

Tibo

[satcom]

We have been working for about ten days now on the raw data from the rtl dongles.

As I advised some time back , previous extensive tests on the dongles revealed that they were not giving useable raw data for mlats even though they passed the basic tests.

Following on from that we turned our attention to the dongles when used with the RPi and dump1090......these turned out to be more reliable...in fact an RPi dump1090 only SMU sector has been running well for  quite a while.

So.... the creator of Dump1090 for RPi has kindly developed a version for PC .
There is still some work to do , but it looks like this "will" produce good raw data when used with a new version of PP which we have also tested.

Hopefully within the next week or so , we will be in a position to release both Dump1090PC and the new version of PP
potentially increasing the number of ground stations available by about 100 , provided everyone upgrades

There is a caveat....some versions of Windows may not have the correct dlls installed to run Dump1090PC...that is something we may need to address in due course

BTW , i have been carrying out other tests today using the "3" network broadband dongle to act as an SMU generating Mlats across BeNeLux...with surprisingly good results.
The "3" dongle is the only broadband device which , as far as we know , is capable of allowing auto port forwarding and is consequently good to go for Mlat

[Anmer]

The "3" dongle is the only broadband device which , as far as we know , is capable of allowing auto port forwarding and is consequently good to go for Mlat

Which make/model is this dongle?  "3" offers a range of dongles many of which are also available from other mobile operators.

[Triple7]

As I mentioned in reply #5 I have a Huawei E585 MiFi router:

http://mymobile.three.co.uk:8080/mymobile/Huawei/E585/overview.html

I also have a Huawei MF627 which is a single connection device which also used to work when mobile. I haven't used it for a while as I use the E585 as my primary connection device when mobile.

http://www.campadelectronics.com.au/products/mf627/images/ztemf627.jpg

Tim

[Anmer]

As I mentioned in reply #5 I have a Huawei E585 MiFi router:

Thanks Tim.

My question was primarily directed at Satcom.